We are now reading Play It As It Lays by Joan Didion. The second selection from the club came from our discussion in which we decided we wanted to was the “Lipsyte” off with something slightly more classic. As the conversation evolved and we all agreed on The Ask’s inability to create believable women, we decided to read a female author. Lots of books were suggested, but we all agreed on Didion. So far the book is not disappointing. Sensitive, bleak, and witty. This book has been great so far.
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artbystander
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Zachary Adam Cohen
museum nerd you having p[roblems with skype?
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MuseumNerd
I’m on. My handle is “museumnerd.” How do I find anyone?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
we are going to call you now
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artbystander
Topic: How the hell to make this thing work. Let’s start a topic and stay on that thread until we feel like we’ve exhausted it and then move on. That way we aren’t on five threads at once. Agreed?
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MuseumNerd
Agreed. My screen flashes a bit when there’s something new, but it’s tough to sort out where it might have appeared.
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artbystander
Zach is the ultimate pessimist.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
looks like skype can do a conference call for up to 24 people
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MuseumNerd
I’d probably be up for that. This is a bit awkward.
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broad1
I’m finally here but I can switch to skype. this is jen btw
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artbystander
Is Dalton on yet? She’s the positive glue to this negative ship
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MuseumNerd
Seriously. I hope she joins. I’m actually not a pessimist in real life for health reasons.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
museum nerd what is your skype name….add me zacharyadamcohen
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broad1
I will dispute that, I’m the one who pretty much loathed this book
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MuseumNerd
Are you seriously Broad1, Jen?
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broad1
yes, it’s a remnant of an old blog I used to have, but I couldn’t figure out how to log onto wordpress as anything else
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artbystander
Jen you’re Broad1 I just fell in love with you all over again. I want to change my name to CroMagno
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broad1
is the consensus that we are here or on skype? if we are here we should stay on one thread, otherwise too confusing
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Zachary Adam Cohen
whats your skype name
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broad1
jendalt
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Zachary Adam Cohen
get on skype real quick
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Zachary Adam Cohen
is there a limit on the number of replies that can be made? that would quickly suck
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William Powhida
There does seem to be a limit. Would a chat room work better?
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William Powhida
The threads dead end after 5 comments…we need a better forum. This will get confusing fast
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Zachary Adam Cohen
agreed, only problem is that a chat room doesn’t have threading and we wont know what answers are directed at what replies…
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William Powhida
Can the admin get rid of the comment thread limit? Maybe there’s a way to delimit the threads
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Zachary Adam Cohen
did that
so now we can comment down to 10 levels which is the limit and would also be pretty good
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artbystander
is everyone on GChat? Or Skype conference chat?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
skype confrerence is limited to three people as far as i know
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Zachary Adam Cohen
what is everyone’s skype?
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William Powhida
williampowhida is my skype name
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artbystander
Genius. I can’t believe Zach didn’t think of that!
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artbystander
Topic: General Impressions of the book?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
well i wrote a fucking review…http://www.slantmagazine.com/house/2010/06/the-ask-a-novel-and-the-gen-x-badge-of-honor/
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artbystander
Well, that was more a review of Lipsyte and the general idea of the novel. What I am talking about is the reaction you took home as a whole. Were you moved, intrigued, disgusted, bored? Did it reach you in a visceral way?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
i actually enjoyed the book. he has a great command of verbal fireworks, explosive sentences and frankly, its the kind of book that cuts through. I remember his writing
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Zachary Adam Cohen
ultimately i was a bit bored by the book, particularly towards the end when the injured son showed up at the dinner party
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William Powhida
I was also a little bored with the whole thing. Felt like a pastiche of a low brow Bret Easton Ellis with some Paul Auster thrown in. I’m thinking about Leviathan
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MuseumNerd
I enjoyed it stylistically, but found the story only compelling enough to keep me from putting it down. I wasn’t really reached in a visceral way. Part of the problem might have been that I was reading the much more intense “Possibility of an Island” before and after reading “The Ask” (at Powhida’s suggestion). Houllebecq sort of dwarfs Lipsyte in terms of a coherent pessimistic vision of the state of the world. Of course, “The Ask” is supposed to be a lot lighter.
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William Powhida
This is sort of ridiculous, do you have to input your name and email with every comment?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
no u don’t only the first time
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artbystander
Not if you’re logged in. I haven’t had to do it.
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William Powhida
Got it, it seems to autofill for me now…anyway, yes the book. It wasn’t up to par with Homeland, his last novel. His first novel? Not sure.
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artbystander
What I thought was that the book as a whole was a failure. It’s obvious he set out to be ambitious and tackle something he felt was inherently wrong in society, but unfortunately the book became a product of the very problem he tried to tackle. I think it’s because the characters became caricatures and not fully formed human beings.
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MuseumNerd
A fast read. Not unenjoyable. Rarely laugh out loud, but I almost never do from reading. just read the first story in Venus Drive and found it mostly sensational in a similar way to The Ask. The one thing I appreciate is that the guys is trying to use some Nabokovian vocab.
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MuseumNerd
In some ways it reminds me of a book I read a decade ago called “Everybody Smokes in Hell.” Anyone read it?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
never read it…
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William Powhida
Nope. Who was the author? And I agree, I don’t think the book achieves any real pessimism. The only part that has stayed with me is Milo’s observations about the smoking dad…the guy who gets killed in a car wreck.
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MuseumNerd
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MuseumNerd
In both the characters are sort of caricatures, as Craig mentioned. Everybody Smokes in Hell is more of an adventure. I felt like this book (The Ask) had a sort of genre fiction (noir/detective) kinda feel that was countered by the high language, but kept it moving at a pace that was very beach-read if that makes any sense.
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William Powhida
Of course, Milo as anti-hero detective, but he is definitely no “dude” in the Lebowski sense. I don’t think Lipsyte’s language was too high. I became annoyed by the “House of Drinking and Smoking” and really didn’t believe for a second that Milo was ever a painter. Lipsyte doesn’t know really bitter artists.
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MuseumNerd
Agreed. He wasn’t convincing as a brooding painter. I like the speech Zach pointed us to that he gets from his professor/lover. It’s a bit trite, but a nice compact send-up of the way the art world supposedly works. P. 115
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broad1
I thought the whole book was trite, and the “insights” were all cliches
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MuseumNerd
Agreed that a lot of this stuff wouldn’t be new to any of us. What are some of the cliches?
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broad1
woa it’s hard to follow this. One of the worst things about the book is that the cliches aren’t even necessarily true! so they it’s lame on 2 fronts. but cliche1 desk jobs are soul killing to artists! cliche2: parents of kids don’t talk to each other or have sex! cliche3 bitter failed artists are always the smartest people around!
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MuseumNerd
Nice examples. I agree that those are some pretty standard ones. I thought it was kind of weird that he was fat. Most frustrated artists I know are skinny.
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artbystander
What’s your skypes?
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MuseumNerd
For some reason. Skype refuses to even open on my computer. I’ll try to fix it for a second here.
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MuseumNerd
Okay. I’m on. “museumnerd” How do we link up?
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Zachary Adam Cohen
ROLLCALL!! Who is here?
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artbystander
Platt is in attendance.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
perfect
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MuseumNerd
Ready to roll.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
anyone else here yet?
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MuseumNerd
Powhida just tweeted that he can’t log in.
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artbystander
Are we just waiting on Dalton now?
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William Powhida
Hey, I’m here
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MuseumNerd
Topic for Discussion: The Ask isn’t pessimistic.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
I agree, the ask is not a pessimistic book even though I think Lipsyte couched his novel in thousands of little ways that that would be one of the ways that it could be read,
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MuseumNerd
If Lipsyte was asking the reader to empathize with the narrator, it might be different, but he does nearly everything in his power to make the narrator someone with whom even sympathy is near impossible. I have a pessimistic outlook for the narrator, but life in general doesn’t seem hopeless in the book.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
exactly right. the outlook for the protagonist is pessimistic, but thats only because hes a total piece of shit,
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Zachary Adam Cohen
i think the ask is pessimisstic only if you accept milo as a reliable narrator, which he both is and isn’t..but if you consider milo a total fucking loser who is so sentimental and neurotic and weak you can then realize that not everyone is as pathetic is that, and that those that aren’t have much more chance in happiness in life. the kind of happiness that eludes milo
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MuseumNerd
It is a red herring though that there are no sympathetic characters in the book, except maybe Milo’s mom and her wife. They seem like they’ve got it figured out and are having a pretty good run.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
bernie is sympathetic and even maura…i mean, i would act like her if my spouse was as pathetic as milo, who else? even purdy…he is an asshole, he is a rich entitled prick, but he’s not weighed down by his past, he’s not destroyed, he goes on, injured for sure, but he does go on, milo does not
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Zachary Adam Cohen
and were the only ones here (I can edit your comments?) (thats pretty fucked up, i must have given you admin rights as opposed to author, but whatever) [Wait. I didn't even know this was possible. Are my comments editable too? That's weird. I wonder if I can go and edit the comments people leave on my page.]
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artbystander
Is this where the conversartion begins? I am confused here.
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MuseumNerd
Either “reply” to a topic, kinda like you did here, or start a new one. This is a reply to “Topic for Discussion: The Ask isn’t pessimistic.”
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artbystander
I think I just did it.
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artbystander
If you consider The Ask to be a commentary on modern society, I think it is pessimistic. The concerns of the central characters have nothing to do with what is occurring outside of their tiny circles. It’s really just pointing out that people are no longer as global as we all assume. It’s easy to forget that when you have so much information at your fingertips. But the case in point is that none of these characters seem to show even the slightest bit of compassion for anything other than “The Ask.” Lipsyte is simply, in my opinion pointing out what a selfish bunch of pricks we’ve all become, regardless of our financial status.
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MuseumNerd
It seems like the only people who care about the “ask” are Milo’s coworkers. Even Purdy is sort of detached from the actual “give.” It represents something to him that’s a love lost and the idea he had of the mother of his son.
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artbystander
But even Purdy makes an Ask.
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MuseumNerd
How do you define the “Ask?”
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Zachary Adam Cohen
who is here?
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Museum Nerd
I’m here and can see how this would be a pretty easy was way to discuss.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
exactly, now lets see if the arteeeests can figure it out as well, they are currently bitching about Air conditioning, apparently they don’t care about global warming
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MuseumNerd
This is a hell of a lot better if you log in.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
thats what i am talking about
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artbystander
Hey everyone,
So when I first suggested the pessimists book club I thought it’d be fun to get a bunch of minds that are as sharp as the rest of the world is dull to get their brain waves all directed to something similar. We went with THE ASK as our first book by recommendation of Mr. Powhida, and since it has some dealings with the art world and it’s failings I am glad we did. That being said, I think there are some ideas we can use to make this fun.
- While reading if you are hit with a thought or a particular quote that stands out to you, tweet it and hashtag it either, #pessimistsbookclub or #pessimistbookclub or #pbc.
- Keep the ideas in your mind, why is this book out there in all of our collective consciousnesses. Lipsyte isn’t the most famous author, in fact this is the first of his books released in hardcover, yet we all knew what this book was right away.
- Thirdly, is this type of post-post-modern fiction effective? That is to say, is the story being told something that can stand the test of time? What I am interested in here is whether a novel that truly lives in the contemporary, throws caution to historical forms and conventional storytelling, whether that makes it any less memorable. So often the novels, and the time we live in, focus on the hot topics and trends and our world is changing so fast that the words and the stories become outdated so quickly. Is that something that could happen with THE ASK?
Good reading everyone.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
Craig! Thanks for getting the bugs worked out. I know that this is all a bit tricky to get started and what not, but I assure you that once we do get it worked out, it is going to allow for some great conversation, a place where people can pop in and out as THEIR schedule allows and be able to stay up on whatever issues or conversation tangents that happen to take place.
I personally think that we should keep the majority of our conversation OFF of Twitter for several reasons, the most imporant being that trying to have a multi party chat via twitter is basically a Sisyphean task.
I think Craig’s idea of initiating conversation on twitter is great, send out a tweet with the hashtag, maybe a heads up to any members that might be online at the time. but then i would urge you to bring the conversation here so that conversation is not lost into the ether of twitter.
That way as others come online or begin to engage they can get caught up should they so choose.
The basic premise here is that we are operating from a place where no one knows when another member will be online, and this technology allows us a way to circumvent that issue.
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Zachary Adam Cohen
Craig can you please define post modern as you see it, so that we may have a better picture of what you mean by post post modern?
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artbystander
I guess for me when I say that, I am talking about Fictions post-modern age of the late 90′s early 2000′s. The Foster Wallace’s, Eggers and Safran Foer’s I guess. These narrators who are in on the joke, overly meta and so self-conscious they feel they have to justify the narrative with each clever sentence. It’s like a virus that has seeped into literature really. Write a good sentence and then have the author or narrator marvel at it for a paragraph. Lipsyte comes after this, but there are elements of those writers in what he is doing. Modern is the golder age of American writers, the Tim O’Briens, Raymond Carvers and Frederick Exleys. Still meta-fiction in a lot of ways, but the narrators are so caught up in the drama of the story that they have no time to be clever and cute.
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The Butcher
I think it is post-post-post-modern. Starting with your Barths and the Pynchons. But it’s your book club.
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artbystander is discussing. 
broad1, and 1 other are discussing. 
William Powhida are discussing. 
artbystander 1:45 pm on July 14, 2010 Permalink |